For this special edition episode, hosts Reem, Spencer, and Sarah talk about what it means to talk policy.

How do they explain policy and policy school? Why do they think that it is important to talk about policy? 

Our three hosts are first-year students at the Goldman School of Public Policy’s Master in Public Policy Program. They each bring different perspectives and background to the master’s program and to the podcast. Tune in to hear what brings them to the table (and to the recording studio) and what drives all of us at Talk Policy to Me.  

Transcript

Sarah Edwards So today we're going to do something a little bit different. We wanted to take a quick break from talking about a specific policy and instead talk about what we're doing here. Talk Policy to Me has been seeing new listeners and we wanted to share a bit about what our goals are who we are and what exactly the policy in Talk Policy To Me is.

So let's let's talk about talking policy. We’re Sarah,

Reem Rayef Reem,

Spencer Bowen and Spencer,

Sarah and this is Talk Policy to Me.

So, all three of us are in our first year of the Goldman School of Public Policy's MPP program. Before we even start to think about how we got here, what exactly does policy mean to us? Like how do any of us explain policy or policy school to someone who's unfamiliar with the idea?

Spencer Yeah. I think policy is the study of how we all get together and collectively decide on how we want our society and our culture to be structured. I think it's really interesting to think about perhaps the disconnect between what a lot of people want that to look like and what actually is. And I think that's also what we're studying, beyond just the objective. Like here's how to evaluate something and here's how to implement something—the nuts and bolts, which I think is key, is important and really cool. It's also understanding that sometimes we might try to do something over the majority of what people might want or we see a hole in what we're already doing that is unjust and not right and we need to find those places too and not just be completely divorced from the process and the reality of the world that's around us.

Sarah Something that kind of stands out for me, when I find myself talking about what I'm doing, is going to policy school is like building a toolkit and that the toolkit allows us to both do really technical policy analysis but also to understand if someone else is saying something, maybe more politically, about a potential policy to understand how they landed to where they landed and if there is something faulty about where they landed to be able to unpack why that is. And is it just a difference in core beliefs? Or is it a difference in the systems that we use to analyze data or to collect data?

Spencer I think the toolkit term is really good, and sometimes overused, but in this case super applicable and true. And I like the idea that this is a cross-cutting degree where we can hypothetically and—well not hypothetically, let me re-say that—we can metaphorically and in real-life poke our heads into a lot of different types of professional and meeting situations in our future and understand what's going on and talk the language. I'd imagine this is one of the few degrees where that is really kind of built in to the curriculum.

Sarah It feels sometimes that it's more about how you do things than what you do.

So shifting from our roles as Goldman students to specifically what we're doing with Talk Policy to Me. So what exactly are we doing? What what is talk policy to me? Here at Talk Policy to Me, we want to unpack the nitty-gritty of a policy and take it from the abstract to the personal. While we love a good policy analysis here at the Goldman School, the podcast also delves into the personal side of policymaking. Why are those shaping policies caring about it, and what does the policy mean for the life of the person who is being put upon? We take some areas of policy that might feel insignificant or unapproachable and show the implications and the personal relevance.

Reem I think that understanding the personal side of policy is a part of effective policy and I think it's important to realize that the people who are making public policy aren't just like logical robots. They are people with experience, families, histories, context, struggles, victories and a whole entire complex life and that absolutely informs the policies that they promote and the policies that they pass in Congress. So, I think that understanding the personal side of policy is A.) Interesting but B.) really important to understanding how that policy came to be and why it is the way it is.

Spencer I think there are so many entrenched forces in our education system driving people toward specialization that it's really cool to be at a degree, I think in large part, is specialized in making you a broad-based thinker and not just being an objective policy wonk divorced from personal stories. And at the same time, not just being an emboldened political leader leading on emotion without basis in objective analysis and so on.

Sarah So I remember our admitted student's day, the question that everybody is asking is "oh like what's your policy area? What area are you interested in? And I remember just being like "oh I have to have a policy area because otherwise it seems like I don't know what I'm doing," or like "I shouldn't be here because I don't have a single area of focus." And I think one of the great things that Goldman teaches us is, no, that's actually really great. There's nothing wrong with having a single thing that you are passionate about and drives you every single day, but also just being like "I want to work on things that matter," and that can be a whole diverse range of things. It's really refreshing to feel like we don't have to pigeonhole ourselves into a corner, unless it feels right.

Spencer I think that's an excellent point. Yeah.

Reem If anyone ever asks you what your policy area is, smack them in the mouth. That is not an acceptable question here, smack them in the mouth (laughter). Don't let them limit you.

Sarah The thing that comes up with me every time that I'm talking to a guest and explaining our title is why. Like why do they want to talk policy? And I think that's really important for us as we're doing this and as people are listening. Why do we want to talk policy and why should anyone want to listen?

Spencer I don't want to say this... People who are, well not just people our age, but especially people our age, should be excited to talk about these issues. It is good and exciting to talk about things that people think are boring but that are actually super important. I think there's a little bit of the idea that if we aren't going to go in to the system and make it better then who is? I think that Talk Policy to Me shows us that we all could be doing a lot of things, and anyone could.  It's not like  our cohort of 84 is in the 80 for most brilliant people on planet Earth, it's just the reality that we've chosen to be here and try to make our communities better places. We should talk about it because it is fun and things like this help bridge the gap between individual and government that can spur the hopefulness of the situation. There's so much sentiment that things are calcified and things are just set in stone, that it is what it is, and you can turn in and try to live your own life very well for yourself and your family, and I do not bemoan that for one second. But I believe that a fulfilling time here among friends and family is doing more than that, and making things better for people beyond me.This the place to do it, this is the degree to do it. And talking about these things, these instruments that are slow and archaic but are important is part of... I'm reminded of when people talk about voting, getting more people to vote or different ways to vote might impact policy changes. And that's good too, but the act of voting by itself, a lot of people agree, is a good thing in and of itself and I think the act of talking about these things in and of itself is good. For our millions of listeners out there, that that's what we're hoping to do, I think at least that's what I'm hoping to do.

Reem This is beyond the ability of any podcast.  I'm sure that we cannot change the way that people engage with politics from this podcast, though I hope that we do. But I think understanding the impact of policy on a personal life is kind of an entry way into caring about it and becoming engaged in it, and therefore policy becoming more democratic by virtue of greater involvement and and greater kind of public engagement.

Spencer Sara. Byond hanging out with me and Reem, why do you want to talk policy?

Sarah No other reason, that's all.

Spencer Correct answer. (laughter)

Sarah Something that comes up for me with what you said was, call it the lizard brain, call it the caveman brain, whatever it is, there is the part of our mental systems that checks "Am I safe? Am I good? Is my immediate family, tribe—whatever— are we good?" And I think it's really easy to bring that mindset into thinking about politics and thinking about policies in a way that's very detrimental for society. I think it's easy to not think about how something impacts someone else or what what the story of this person that you maybe have dehumanized in your brain actually is because of convenience. People living in poverty, the homeless person on the street, I think a lot of times the average person doesn't necessarily think about the day in day out of what it would it mean to be a homeless woman and be on your period and not have access to anything. You know I think there's so many different spaces where it's not easy to not go to unless someone helps you start. And I think all of us maybe have had someone in our lives that have been like "hey we should we should go there" and that has inspired us to do this and now we're trying to pay it forward. To be like "hey let's let's go there let's figure out like what would the impact of this be on a real human being," not just on the overall budget status or this crazy stereotype that comes from something that wasn't even true to begin with.

Reem Also, it's just fun as hell. Living in D.C, I became truly obsessed with the personal lives of politicians and policymakers and it's so interesting to try and map somebodies personal life and their background. I did a lot of really intense facebook stalking of any given administrator at EPA, or whatever, and you really understand where their views and their policy-takes come from when you understand where they come from, the people that they listen to, the people that they read and what drives them. So that personal side of politics and policy is really really interesting and everybody should pay attention to it because it's dramatic and it's as good as the bachelor.

Spencer High praise for policy. (laughter)

Reem Also, I don't watch the bachelor, but I think policy is probably better.

Sarah Talk Policy to Me is a project of the Goldman School of Public Policy and the Berkeley Institute for the Future of Young Americans. So we get to be in this really cool space where we are looking at policies and how they impact people. But there's kind of this larger lens of what this means for young people. And that might mean specifically on how this individual policy-change affects a young person today, or to say if we're looking at policy change in the scope of time, what will that mean for people who are young now as they begin to age?

I think that lets us get into issues in a different way than just if we were looking at it sort of more at a distance.

Spencer Honestly, this might sound a little crass, but shouldn't we think about all policies through that lens? I think all of us have a little bit of responsibility in whatever we end up doing to put that to the forefront. It's like, let's think about the people we're young now or who are younger now because they're the people we're trying to serve. A lot of these policy interventions don't directly hit people with a snap. They are a long term play. So let's think about the people who are going to grow and age alongside us, you know, it's very important. I don't even think that should supercede, I just think it should be—.

Reem My immediate reaction to what you were saying about kind of why we were talking about policy and its effect on people because to me those are pretty much the only policies that are very urgent and that matter.

Spencer Do you have any thoughts about like working for an institute that explicitly calls out young people?

Sarah I think the part of me that makes myself feel guilty about anything possible is like thinking "wow what an entitled millennial I am that I want to work for something that cares specifically about like people in my age cohort." But at the same time, I think there is so much shit out there about millennials and I think it's really exciting to be in this space that says we are a group of millennials working on these topics and we are working to push them forward in a way that asks the question of likewhat these policies are doing for people our age and also what can we be doing to better this country, the world as a whole, whatever pocket of geography that you choose to focus on.

So what are my next questions for all of us is of like what is the most "Goldman" moment that we've had? Like talk policy to me or just in general in our lives at Goldman.

Spencer I'll use the recency bias here. We had an event with the Associated Press last week and I learned that the CEO of The Associated Press, like one of the most respected institutions in the world, is a Goldman alumn and the reporter that broke a lot of the horrifying stories about immigrants and families at our southern border is also a Goldman alumn. And I got to talk to them just like normal people at a Goldman event last week and that is really cool on two levels. I think one, as with many Goldman alums, people are doing really impactful work. And two, policy is this super cool diverse field of study and you can go into a lot of things. Our classmates end up like analyzing policy in a really smart way for like the GAO or the LAO in Sacramento. That is awesome but that's not the only thing you can do with a policy degree. It was just cool to see and that and made me feel really proud to be here. And I am just like in awe that these folks are so normal and you can you can talk to them like normal people. They're not not celebs so that was fun.

Sarah I guess this is less of a moment and more like a singular form of interaction, but I feel like working on the podcast when I have reached out to faculty at Goldman for interviews, they're always incredibly generous with their time—really willing to step up and talk to me when they don't really have any reason to. And then I feel it's like it's not just that interaction, they also say hello every time they see me. More broadly, I feel like I am given access to people who are doing really incredible things and then also treated with a lot of respect by them which makes me feel really happy to be here.

How about you Reem?

Reem I don't know, I feel like it's hard to define what a Goldman moment is but I feel like I have them all the time and most tenderly when class lets out and we are like rolling around in the courtyard outside in the sunshine and grass, and things like grading papers with classmates or eating snacks with classmates or taking a nap in the sunshine with classmates. Goldman moments all the time.

Sarah That's all very lovely.

Talk policy to me is a production at the UC Berkeley Goldman School of Public Policy and the Berkeley Institute for the Future of Young Americans. For show notes, visit us at talkpolicytome.org. Music heard on today's episode is by Pat Mesiti-Miller and Blue Dot Sessions. Our executive producers are Bora Lee Reed and Sarah Swanbeck. Michael Quiroz is our engineer. I'm Sarah,

Reem I'm Reem.

Spencer and I'm Spencer.

Sarah We'll catch you next time.